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SymbianOS v9 - Is that the end of the community??
| Wed, 2005-02-09 11:29 | |
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As Eric posted about the new release of SymbianOS v9 here:
http://www.newlc.com/article.php3?id_article=742 I was wondering about the tools. SOSv9 uses ARM's EABI format instead of the currently used elf format which is supported by the gcc modified by Symbian. Now, in order to get started to get any binaries running on your phone, you had to buy the RVCT tools of ARM. I don't got the $6750 to spare for the new compiler. Have a look here: http://www.arm.com/products/DevTools/pricing-devtools.html Is that the end of the Symbian community?? Will there be a gcc that supports EABI format?? It sound to me that SOS development becomes more exclusive to the big guys, with the small guys, who can't afford it anymore  Cheers, Andre |
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Forum posts: 26
I agree Symbian is becoming less homebrew-friendly. First there is Symbian signed - a good idea I think, but too expensive. What happened to free certification for freeware apps?
Read this section:
As far as IDE as concerned, you will have to move to Codewarrior 3.0. Earlier version wonÂ’t support Symbian OS v9. The free Eclipse IDE should be supported as well and cover the basic needs of a developer but we could not get more details so far. The release of the IDE is scheduled for the second half of 2005.
So Eclipse will cover the basic needs... I wonder what that means? It'd better have code completion, and decent debugging!
The expensive ARM compiler produces code 30% faster than the GCC equivalent... given that a lot of homebrew developers are game developers for whom speed of their product is important, this seems a little unfair...
Also - the move to support standard C++ exceptions - will these be slower than Symb ones? What about all those justifications in the Symb books for the Symb way of doing it?
Same goes for static data... what about the reasons for not using this in the first place? Personally I've never had to do it, except for on a few occasions
when it's mainly been a non-OOP hack to get something working in time
Big plus though: more, cheaper Symbian OS phones!
Scarfman007
Forum posts: 2009
Will there be a gcc that supports EABI format??
For me the biggest limitation is the security framework: you won't be able to hack here and there in the OS and won't have any access to some APIs: still better than a completely close phone "a la Motorola A920" where only certified apps could be installed. But a lot less fear from malware.
Having talked with Symbian guys, they are really concerned by the community.... re-read the article: you will just have better tools than today (free eclipse IDE but as the development is still on-going they don't want to commit to specific features, newer GCC, and I assume that CW 3.0 Personal will be out some day).
Eric Bustarret
NewLC Founder & CEO / Professional Symbian OS Consultant
Hmm... do you know exact reasons why these can't be combined ?
I think you could use them at the same time , but you need to be very careful.
TRAP mechanism insists that execution flow can't jump outside the TRAP (call stack must be unwinded).
Throw/Catch does exactly this...
So combining is not a good idea but could be done or has Symbian prevented this somehow (flagged) ?
I'm very exited with these new events. Now that we have standard C++ support we can finally start using Templates (read STL, BOOST etc.) and we can finally create portable code without using millions of different flags etc..
As far as IDE as concerned, you will have to move to Codewarrior 3.0. Earlier version wonÂ’t support Symbian OS v9. The free Eclipse IDE should be supported as well and cover the basic needs of a developer but we could not get more details so far. The release of the IDE is scheduled for the second half of 2005.
Does this mean that when I go now (immediately) to http://gcc.gnu.org and download the latest gcc 3.4 and build it for the armv5 target, that I could compile binaries for the sosv9 and they would work?
Or, does it mean that the work is still to be done to modify gcc 3.4 for the armv5 target?
As far as I understand, this work is still under way. And as it is open source project, that might be ready whenever.
Could someone please clarify?
If the work is still to be done or under its way, then the following could happen:
worst case:
First sosv9 phone in Q3'05.
gcc 3.4 and eclipse are released in Q1'06
RVCT and CW30 are available in Q3'05: $6000 + $3000 ~ $9000
That would give people a 6 month gap for accessing the tools, if they can't afford to spare $9000.
Best case:
eclipse and gcc 3.4 are available when the first sosv9 ships
Thanks,
Andre
Forum posts: 19
Then the entry cost would come down to RVCT $4000 + CW $3000 = $7000.
NOKIA might even give you the CW for free, in that case, as they own MetroWorks anyway
That means if the modified gcc3.4 plus eclipse should be late (due to whatever open source issues ...)
then we are talking about the following entry costs:
$9000 for none NOKIA sub-contractors (probably most of us)
$4000 for NOKIA sub-contractors
----------------
Hallo Andre,
hier die RVCT Preis Infos Infos von ARM.
--
Viele Grüße Uwe
------------ Forwarded Message ------------
Date: Montag, 13. Dezember 2004 12:47 +0000
From: Suzanne Smith
To: Uwe Guenther
Subject: RE: RVCT compilation Tools Pricing
Dear Uwe
Thank you for your email.
RVCT is not generally sold as a stand-alone product, but is being made
available to Nokia subcontractors at the prices shown:
RVCT v2.1.1 Windows Node Locked RC210-KT-30060 $3,500
RVCT v2.1.1 Windows Floating RC210-KT-40060 $4,000
RVCT v2.1.1 Linux Floating RC210-KT-60060 $4,000
RVCT v2.1.1 Solaris Floating RC210-KT-20060 $4,000
Each kit includes a permanent license, installation CD-ROM, electronics
documentation and one year of support & maintenance (from the date of
purchase).
If you require a formal quotation please contact:
Darrel Kingham
...
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further
information.
Kind Regards
Suzanne
Worldwide Sales Coordinator
Development Systems Business Unit
ARM Ltd, 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge,CB1 9NJ
...
-----Original Message-----
From: Uwe Guenther
Sent: 13 December 2004 09:09
To: Order-Europe
Subject: RVCT compilation Tools Pricing
Hello at ARM,
is there a pricing for the "RVCT compilation Tools" only - that are
included in to the "Real View Developer Suite v2.1 CD".
--
Kind Regards
Uwe Guenther
Forum posts: 7
So assuming GCC release an EABI compatible version, then yes, eventually it will work and be supported with Symbian's toolchain.
I am not convinced this is correct.
Forum posts: 2
don't worry about the compiler. GCC-E 3.4 will be available with coming SDKs from different vendors like Nokia. It will also be available from Symbian. The GCC-E is binary compatible with the RVCT 2.2 version. No need for you to use RVCT.
Regarding freeware development - most of the APIs don't require any capabilities => you can still write lot of freeware apps in the future as well without using the Symbian Signed program. Platform security is good, because it is very easy to write applications today which can really cause financial losses for mobile owners. With platform security, it won't be that easy.
- Eero
Forum posts: 723
You will have to use exactly the same macros what you're using right now. Symbian has just modified the macros so that they use C++ throw and catch from 9.0 on.
Gabor Torok
Software architect, Agil Eight (http://www.agileight.com/)
Blog: http://mobile-thoughts.blogspot.com/
Forum posts: 85
How long do you think it will be before symbian v9 is wide-spread enough to worry about inaccessible API and such?
A year? A few months? I don't know what the phone recycling rate is these days..
It will suck that I can't develop anything interesting due to restricted (and freakin' expensive) API access!!
Maybe someone less fearful of the future will come up with an open-source phone and scoop up
the market!