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What is the future of Symbian C++ developer?
| Mon, 2003-06-09 12:33 | |
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Hi All,
I am new to Symbian C++ developing. For last two months I am working on it. What I feel is, it is so vast to learn and don't have good support (in India I don't even have any book, totally dependent on net). Ultimately the productivity is low. Whereas Java platforms offers fast development. What will be the advantage I get as Symbian C++ developer in future? I want some comments on this. Thanks and Regards, Venkat |
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Forum posts: 31
The lack of good books does not only apply to India.
I also am working with Symbian in my free time since February. It is a hard road and the official Nokia forums often can't help with the specific questions.
The advantages of C++ over J2ME are as follows:
-Camera API
-Bluetooth (although the new Siemens phone seems to support the Java-BT-API)
-Speed
-Graphics (can you say 3D?)
-Sound (the Java sound support sucks)
-and much more stuff I currently don't remember
But progress on my games framework is coming along nicely (not as fast as I hoped though), so I was able to build the first version of my game Crystal Pop within 3 days. Could not have done that faster in Java.
As the Symbian platform probably will not go away too fast I think we will have to live with its shortcomings concerning documentation.
There are sites like NewLC where you can ask questions and often receive quite competent answers.
My position is to learn as much as possible and use this as a professional advantage (still helping other people out though
zeep
zeep
Forum posts: 1890
And the tools delivered with Symbian are still very young and greatly evolving. If you want to compare:
- try ER5 SDK. You will find it prehistoric compared to latest one.
- compare the SDL that is delivered with 6.1 SDK (devlib.chm) with the latest one on Symbian website : it is three times bigger and documents a lot more APIs (and if you did not download it yet - I suggest you download and replace the 6.1 devlib.chm by this fresh one).
And don't forget that this site is here to help you. But you can also help the site and others: if you solve a tricky problem it may be interesting for everybody to know how you've done this: publish it (on the forums or the main site). If you don't want to write the full article or do the style and presentation stuff, we can help you.
Cheers,
Eric
Eric Bustarret
NewLC Founder & CEO / Professional Symbian OS Consultant
Forum posts: 26
Being a European, I want the Symbian platform to survive, but I doubt so. Lack of decent tools/documentation/support (thank God NewLC is available, because if we expect support from forumNokia...) and FREE and AVAILABLE documentation (just do a google search and you'll find complete books on CE programming ONLINE) will bring this platform to its demise.
Sorry for being so dissapointing but I am
Smartphone 2003/PocketPC 2002 Phone Edition is around the corner and I can assure you it really rocks in terms of performance and ease of programming compared to Symbian. It might have higher footprint, but Smartphones/PPCPE's are actually cheaper than Symbian mobiles
Forum posts: 363
Seriously, none of your points are valid:
Microsoft gives away tools because it's the only way to attract developers to an otherwise very mediocre programming platform.
Surely you can order Symbian books even in Greece?
Forum Nokia provides excellent support, and even better for paying customers. What is so strange about this? Microsoft too has commercial developer support for those who want to pay the fee.
No one forces you to buy CodeWarrior - in fact, symbian is based on the
open source GCC toolchain so you can develop your own improvements easily if you want to ( lots of people do this with PERL).
Curiously missing from your list is perhaps the most important factor between the two platforms- stability (and reliability)
[/list:u]
Forum posts: 1890
Did you try the SPV before posting this ? Some may find it attractive and it is not that expensive, but why did Orange not achieve to sell half the devices they bought from HTC ? Because it's a crappy phone.
And then why you, as a developper, are you looking at the Symbian platform ? Maybe also because it has 90% percent of the Smartphone market share.... So it is worth spending 3 or 4 months learning the environment.
Probably Microsoft will succeed more in the future. The company makes enough money from its monopolistic situation in the PC area to hire Symbian executives (at least they know what a phone is), offer phones to journalists, operators, manufacturers and even me...
(btw, I have a HP Jornada 545 to give away, first hand, only used one week)
Cheers,
Eric
Eric Bustarret
NewLC Founder & CEO / Professional Symbian OS Consultant
The total sale volumes between M$ offerings (Pocket PCs and SmartPhone 200x) is sooo different that I wouldn't currently look at doing pocket pc/smartphone at all (with former having declining sales figures in the last quarter).
I admit that the learning curve is a bit steeper, but things are getting better more and more Symbian books are available and should help you get started. Also have you submitted your comments to Nokia and Symbian?(e.g. through http://www.forum.nokia.com), I bet they listen what the developers are saying and trying to enhance on the SDKs. There are lots more examples now in S60 1.2 SDK and documentation is getting better, more and more guidelines are available etc.
Another _big_ plus (for me at least) is that the toolchain actually uses gcc. I can do developement completely free under Linux as well(http://gnupoc.sourceforge.net) I cannot do that with M$ stuff - though there are some limitations though.
Forum posts: 26
I wouldn't touch epoc programming since I was coding for the er5 on 5mx; the reason I _might_ is because I got a new Nokia 3650 (nice phone, the OS is kinda fragile in terms of reliability), but due to the total lack of support (in Greece - no books are available), decent toolchain I start to think if I mad a wrong decision.
Symbian is lightweight but not stable, not a close bit. A contact of mine inside Alphacopy (the Nokia representative in Greece) reports that they get almost 50% of 7650/3650's back, due to problems in the OS. For example, the more common problem is when the user installs applications on memory card, goes the phone for a firmware update and then the phone does not boot unless the memory card is formatted - simply because the applications place shortcuts in memory and can't find them afterwards. That kind of problems do not happen under CE, I program in CE for almost 5 years and it's a totally different OS from Symbian.
Many people mention that the learning curve of Symbian is steep, to have patience, to wirte in forums. I did all these and in most cases I didn't get any answers, only the motto "it takes time, be patient". Well, I'm not patient, I can't afford it, I want results now!
Anyway, not bothering you more. Thank you for replying my posts. Maybe it was a bad idea whatsoever to try Symbian programming. Well it does not matter a developer less, the platform has enough already.
Symbian OS is definately very stable (I have had 7650 and 3650 myself) without any major problems. Exactly what problems have you had with your 3650? You're the first one I heard "have to format memory card formatted" after firmware upgrade and I have upgraded my firmware with SW installed on the MMC without problems...
You'll be waiting lot longer if you want to have "results now" and placing your bets on a niche OS like M$ phone OS currently is.
Forum posts: 26
Symbian OS is definately very stable (I have had 7650 and 3650 myself) without any major problems. Exactly what problems have you had with your 3650? You're the first one I heard "have to format memory card formatted" after firmware upgrade and I have upgraded my firmware with SW installed on the MMC without problems...
You'll be waiting lot longer if you want to have "results now" and placing your bets on a niche OS like M$ phone OS currently is.
Just one note: you keep telling about SPV, why don't you mention XDA? XDA is a mature and stable product, with a whole load of features and support. In fact, the platform is so popular that even Siemens brands it in US.
XDA II is comming and it is a whole lot better. PocketPC functionality with a smartphone size. SPV is not the only choice, you know.
Regarding broken 3650's, just visit the Nokia series 60 forums on www.myphone.gr to read posts from frustrated and angry 3650 users having their mmc's toasted by upgrades (they had either to remove the mmc or the phone won't boot and then have the mmc formatted in order to be usable again).
As for "results now", just look at the number of available quality applications that exist on CE and compare them to the ones available for Symbian; the lack of proper development chain is the cause of this. You can't argue the fact that development cycles on CE are far more short (and quicker) than Symbian - come on, a consortium of so many developers and they can't bring out a complete SDK/IDE? Not to mention the tools that are mentioned in the docs but are missing (menu editor, ...). This is not a professional development platform, but a very mediocre one.
Anyway, not to start a flame since this is a Symbian developer forum; I just wanted to let you know however that Symbian and it's tools are far from perfect and usable for most of us, unless you plan to put a lot of effort and an enormous amount of time to the platform (which - frankly - I don't think it's worth it).
P.S: Someone mentioned that CE development was not possible under Linux; WRONG! Just look for the GCCGNUCE project and you'll be amazed. In fact you don't even need WINE and other stuff like Symbian.
For me XDA is not a good example, it has sold even less than SPV. And XDA goes into PDA category anyways (apples and oranges comparison) - I don't think touchscreens will have the same scale sale figures as real smart phones have (~65000 for XDA compered to millions).
I don't think your reasoning holds water - sure Pocket PC has more SW now - it has been in the marketplace a lot longer than e.g. S60 phones (available just over a year). There are huge amounts SW coming and more and more available each day. Symbian has never had this much users until in the last year or so... Developers will follow. Why would I develop SW for geeky PDAs and phones that I haven't seen anywhere, compared to a phones that is available in tens of countries with huge user base.
Learning curve is still steep, that I admit, but again the usage scale is soooo much different that I definately would go through the learning curve. You have to do it only once - after that it is gets easier - honestly I know
If you really want to learn Symbian, please share your questions, we are here to help.
Forum posts: 26
I do want to learn Symbian, I'm trying my best at it. Here's some posts I've made, but got no answer so far.
http://www.newlc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=735#735
http://www.newlc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=260
Maybe you could help.
About topic 735:
Do you really take care of the gcc version you will use if you are a beginner. It probably have some bugs as you mention, but frankly speaking I am not sure you will notice it for a while ! Most of the symbian community is using this compiler and I have enver heard a complaint.
I have also answered the other thread.
Cheers,
Eric
Forum posts: 26
About topic 735:
Do you really take care of the gcc version you will use if you are a beginner. It probably have some bugs as you mention, but frankly speaking I am not sure you will notice it for a while ! Most of the symbian community is using this compiler and I have enver heard a complaint.
I have also answered the other thread.
Cheers,
Eric
Hi Eric,
It's not a matter if I've notice the bugs, they are there. I am beginner in Symbian development but I'm not beginner in C++ (doing it for over 10 years). The problems are not Symbian related but C++ related (template generation - totally irrelevant of Symbian programming and SDK's, but compiler specific).
I wouldn't touch epoc programming since I was coding for the er5 on 5mx; the reason I _might_ is because I got a new Nokia 3650 (nice phone, the OS is kinda fragile in terms of reliability), but due to the total lack of support (in Greece - no books are available), decent toolchain I start to think if I mad a wrong decision.
Symbian is lightweight but not stable, not a close bit. A contact of mine inside Alphacopy (the Nokia representative in Greece) reports that they get almost 50% of 7650/3650's back, due to problems in the OS. For example, the more common problem is when the user installs applications on memory card, goes the phone for a firmware update and then the phone does not boot unless the memory card is formatted - simply because the applications place shortcuts in memory and can't find them afterwards. That kind of problems do not happen under CE, I program in CE for almost 5 years and it's a totally different OS from Symbian.
Many people mention that the learning curve of Symbian is steep, to have patience, to wirte in forums. I did all these and in most cases I didn't get any answers, only the motto "it takes time, be patient". Well, I'm not patient, I can't afford it, I want results now!
Anyway, not bothering you more. Thank you for replying my posts. Maybe it was a bad idea whatsoever to try Symbian programming. Well it does not matter a developer less, the platform has enough already.