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Positioning methods of Mobile Handset without using GPS
| Wed, 2007-10-31 11:58 | |
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There are various methods of finding the location of mobile device. GPS and AGPS methods requires additional hardware capability in the device We can get the location by Cell ID and the location code from the device. But the accuracy of the position is varies depending on the Cell size. |
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Forum posts: 1248
I really don't see how there could be any other.
Anyway, one would think that if there was any other somebody would have come up with it and made a very successful product out of it for a long time already, known to almost everybody. Absence of such a product is as good as proof for me that there is nothing at all beside GPS and cell id.
René Brunner
Forum posts: 1246
You can also do some positioning on wlan and BT if you have a database over base station locations.
Works pretty good in crowded cities...
But you need the database ofcourse.
You need that too on cell-ids though, since the location of cells isn't really public information. (but easily scanned ofcourse)
Anything that can give you some reference on where you are can be used (duh), but this ofcourse has to be based on some kind of signal that is send from "outside" the device. (duh again)
In a "cutting edge" cell phone, you have a few "detectors" of external signals, these are.. GSM/3G (cell id), GPS, BlueTooth and Wlan...
Go figure...
Forum posts: 1248
I was brainstorming a little after reading the post. And you know, be gentle while brainstorming, often the starting point is very weak, but the seed of an idea found:
We are in a situation right now where most phones have Bluetooth, but only very few a GPS receiver. Now, at least in theory, the phones with GPS could broadcast their position over Bluetooth, and any Bluetooth-enabled phone nearby with software that understands this broadcast then also knows where it is.
One of the problems of this approach: What incentive would the owner of a GPS-enabled phone have to provide this service to the people around him, strangers to him?
If somehow the owner of the GPS-enabled phone could get a little money when somebody gets the position from his phone, maybe that could work...
René Brunner
Forum posts: 1246
It's an interesting idea.
Another problem is the fact that bt broad casts take power... And also the GPS.
You don't want to send if no-one is listening.
But I assume you don't really need to broad cast, but could show a "gps service" that other phones could connect to to poll the position.
For this being really effective, you really do need to get it into most GPS phones, and it is only usable in quite crowded areas (BT is just 10m or so)
So you probably have to bundle it with the most kick ass GPS program for the GPS enabled phones too, to get enough people relaying.
Forum posts: 1248
Once started, such brainstorming sometimes is hard to stop...
We already know that cell id is pretty accurate, suitable for many purposes. What's probably missing (don't really now, I just assume here) is an open, easily accessible and all-covering database with entries (cell id, geographical position).
My new idea has two parts. How do we get this database? We let the people with GPS-enabled phones build it for us. We give them a little program that builds an SMS out of the current cell id and the GPS coordinates and sends the SMS to our server where we can create a new database entry. If we can somehow credit people for sending in such SMS, they will probably run around for us and send such SMS out of many different cells. Presto - we have the database in almost no time. Costs money, though, maybe lots.
Second part: People with any phone that can tell us the current cell id can send that id by premium SMS to our server where the location is returned from the database. Money starts flowing in, hopefully
René Brunner
Forum posts: 720
Such a thing already exists (and has been there for a few years); CellSpotting, http://cellspotting.com/software/index.php
Forum posts: 363
Hello,
Interesting discussion, I have been interested in this for a while. Let's collect some of the main points:
--- Why would you want to utilize GSM Cell ID data for positioning?
1) Although it is expected that most smartphone devices will have GPS chips in them in the future, this will still take time, a safe date is probably 2010. For now, only the devices at the high end have this functionality in-built.
2) GSM Cell ID can be used for positioning in areas where GPS connection is not available, e.g. underground/metro etc. See http://navizon.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/06/gps-underground.html .
--- How does this work?
The key components are: users with GPS enabled devices, client software to "harvest" the combined Cell ID + GPS data and a central database to aggregate this.
CellSpotting does not do this right as they require the user to manually enter their location. This is imprecise, time consuming and simply does not scale.
The companies that seem to have the right kind of software are Navizon (www.navizon.com) and Locatik (www.locatik.com). The client software automatically updates the GPS+Cell ID data over the network to the database, allowing for harvesting of 10,000 locations in 45 minutes, see: http://navizon.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/09/how_i_made_1000.html .
The problem with the commercial vendors is that the database is not open (usually access costs a certain amount per location query). This is what currently prevents wide-spread use of this approach.
Please continue to comment on this interesting topic!
Cheers,
Pawel
Forum posts: 1248
Oh my. It's clear that if some arm-chair hobbyist like me can come with something, people who think about such stuff whole day year-round had this idea already years ago...
But interesting indeed, I learned something from this thread, I didn't know about CellSpotting and Navizon so far.
Anyway, I agree with Pawel that any good idea (and its implementation) in this regard, i.e. for phones without GPS, probably has a rather small window of opportunity now. 2010 or a little later for the GPS breakthrough (GPS in pretty much every new phone) seems about right to me.
Maybe it would be much better to start thinking now what interesting things can be done in a world where every phone and thus almost any person knows at all times where he or she is on this planet, things that are not obvious and that are not yet "occupied". If one starts with concepts and business plans now, it should be possible to bring something to market exactly at the right time.
René Brunner
Forum posts: 2
It’s great that topic has got so many responses …good brainstorming.
I agree that very soon most of the people will have GPS enabled phones. But to get more coverage to the application hardware dependency need to reduce.
The database based On Cell ID might be available with sites like Europa-tech. The area of the Cell ID can be in the range of Kilometers. The accuracy is the issue in this solution.
Cheers !!
Santosh