NewLC - What is the future of Symbian C++ developer? - Comments

Re: What is the future of Symbian C++ developer?

profwiggy — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 22:40:55 +0100

Many valid points, rbrunner.

I think that if the SDK for the iPhone comes out as planned in Feb 2008 and Apple doesn't lock down too tight the licensing, things will get very crazy for a bit. The new Symbianed Signed rules should help a bit, since a developer should in theory be able to write at least free for his own personal device. That should pull in a few people who just want to play at writing for the platform or starting out wanting to write a single app for themselves. Better documentation and a bit more tweaks to the IDE and possibly new API structures (similar to what MS did to .NET) also might help ease developers pain, but not sure that is even in the works.

The next few years promises to be a whrilwind of new mobile devices all jockeying for top billing and chasing each other's advances. That is why I looked at the "cover all my bets" approach. It is not sustainable in the long run, but helps when not sure what road to walk down. I have made a career out of being the techie that fills the gaps by knowing a little about many things, and expert in one. Those days are fast fading with IT leaning heavily on certificates, specialists, and ever increasing technology which is hard to keep pace. I dare say that the day of the basement developer is getting hard to even see in my rear view window. But I think that cell phones still need those lone programmers that do it for the love of it, and not the money for a few more years.

Re: What is the future of Symbian C++ developer?

rbrunner — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 14:06:18 +0100

I think the future of the mobile OS landscape today is even less clear than it was back in 2003 when this thread started. It seems to me that things become worse, not better, for hopeful programmers like us, with the advent of the iPhone and Android.

On the other hand, what IMO is clearer today than in 2003: No major player will give up anytime soon and take down all programmers that bet on it. Even relatively minor players like UIQ seem to be here to stay, at least for the next few years, and where in IT can you look farther than a few years into the future anyway?

My personal bet at the moment is UIQ. Not because I think that UIQ will be particularly successfull. I guess it won't, it will just meddle through. But as I said I think it is here to stay, and there are millions of UIQ phones sold, and if I manage to sell software to only a small fraction of the owners of these phones, it will be worthwhile for me. Another advantage that I hope for is less competition compared with the already quite crowded S60 scene - everybody seems to be in the S60 scene nowadays...

Personally I am quite sceptic of "cover all my bets" strategies, by trying to stay current in as many areas as possible. The areas get more numerous almost every day, and the older ones keep getting bigger and bigger, that whole thing will quickly grow ower my head unless I fear not and specialize, at least for a while.

Re: What is the future of Symbian C++ developer?

profwiggy — Thu, 08 Nov 2007 21:09:33 +0100

It is now November 2007, and I have just started (last few months) to start programming for Symbian. I was kinda forced into it in a couple of ways. I am an old mainframe systems programmer with old Windows C/C++ experience and slowly getting edged out of the market as less and less mainframes are being used... At least the ones I am expereinced in. So I have had to learn Web and .NET programming... along with many other languages and platforms... Even took a Ruby class last spring... So I am trying to stay as current as possible with as many of the promising platforms as possible, since I am still many years away from retirement. Mobile programming seems to be something that will at least last for a few more years...

The last straw was that I upgraded my cell phone from a Nokia 6620 to a N75 and my Russian Keyboard input program was not ported to the 3rd edition and the company has no plans to migrate it... So I am learning Symbian to write my own, as well as looking at the iPhone, Mobile Windows, and even today seriously eyeing the Google Android SDK that is suppose to come out next week. And even writing some FACEBOOK apps... maybe interfacing with my cell phone...

All-in-all, the Symbian front doesn't seem as bad now as mentioned above in this thread. I ran through the online examples, bought a few books from Symbian press, and well on my way to creating my first simple production app. It reminds me of the way we used to program for Windows 3.1 in C++ years ago, so I have a little basis for example.

My question is... I started programming for the S60 3rd edition since that is what my current phone is (a Nokia N75) but that is Symbian v9.1 and there is a v9.2 (and v9.3?) and then the UIQ, and there was just an announcement for touch support too? I think iPhone has changed the customer expectation of a UI, and we will see cell phones evolving faster than before.... What is everybody's feel for what is a good Symbian platform to get expert on? Right now I am sticking with the s60 3rd (v9.1), but expect to need to constantly look forward. Agreed? And what about UIQ? I don't mind chasing a moving target (part of the job in tech-land) but want to be smart about it.

Re: What is the future of Symbian C++ developer?

alh — Thu, 10 May 2007 10:40:00 +0200

Things are slowly getting better, but is pretty much the same.

Weird an inconsistent APIs with little documentation, but now even more phones out there running symbian.

Tools are working a lot better though, and we now have a free IDE that is getting more and more usable.

The OS has had a bit of a slowness problem, peaking around UIQ3.0/S60 3rd, but from what I have seen its now getting better.

Microsoft is still struggling to get a good phone out, and to make its phone OS stable, but linux has entered the market as a real competitor. (or several actually)

The future is bright for smartphones, as the line between "smartphone" and "featurephone" gets more and more blurry.
Future is also good for symbian, and they will still be a strong player for many years to come (Nokia and Sony Ericsson will make sure), but they will not have the dominant position they used to have.
Not saying they will sell less, since the market is ever increasing.

The smart developer doesn't care much about platform, (s)he learns and uses whatever seems most appropriate for the software imagined, and market (s)he want to target.

My 0.02Â€ on this old thread

Re: What is the future of Symbian C++ developer?

Serginho — Tue, 08 May 2007 20:19:12 +0200

Hi all,

I have just read all the topic... And I want to know now (2007...), have more than 2 years this topic.

What you have to say about the Symbian future?

For me, its difficult to learn, because i cant find a good DOC to make a simple code...

Regards.

What is the future of Symbian C++ developer?

robmob — Fri, 10 Dec 2004 02:45:43 +0100

MobileAnalys is spot on!! I developed j2me software, realized that I'll have to test it (and keep different versions of the code) on every device there is out there! The reason I choose do develop in j2me was to be able to get my application for as many devices as possible, ..did I live to regret that decision!! And the Java Verified program...

Now some may say that it's easy to submit to handango or similar, well... handango (and their partners) will take a BIG chunk of the sales (and even deduct to the IRS...uhhh.. why not put handango off-shore??), so unless you sell ALOT, your app better be cheap to develop or you have yourself one expensive hobby.

As for developing for Symbian devices..I am a noob, but so far I haven't had several nervous breakdowns a day due to a moronic platform....or even weird implementations (thats the no 1 problem with j2me).
One thing that is lacking is sdk/ide for linux! I can't be the only developer who prefers to develop stuff on my linux-partition?? If I boot in windows, there is NO WAY I have the network enabled!! I simply do not trust anything on that partition.....

[snip]
Since Symbian apps are distributed through portals. I think, there are no significant markets for Symbian apps. How many company makes really money with Symbian apps? I guess that 80% of developers/companies who sell Symbian apps do not really make money
[/snip]

I don't have a clue....I hope this is wrong....

When I develop an app for a device, I expect to be able to get full access to the device (note, this is as opposed to the j2me way..which prevent me for making usefull apps), but I realize that some people have concerns (malware in general), but why should it be different that for a PC-prog?? I am not required to "verify" my SW before it can be run on a PC??

Nokia (and the other Symbians) make money selling their devices. If there is plenty of usefull apps for the platform, they will sell more. Now, THEY should put the money where their mouth is!!

Give us FREE tools, GOOD tools, tools on LINUX, and PAY for the "verify certification" if that is needed. Don't try to squeeese money from the developers with pro-special-access-to-shoud-be-common-APIs!!!

Nokia: tell us how much money you are making from the sales of CW and the "premier developer program"!! My guess is that it's less than what the administration is!!

Look, someone who got it, once said: DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS, DEVELOPERS!!

To Nokia and the other Symbian-device makers:

You get developers (hmmm where to find a whole bunch of developers? (hint: penguin)) and you will get SoftWare! SoftWare will DRIVE THE SALES OF DEVICES!

Get it??

What is the future of Symbian C++ developer?

mayur24 — Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:10:15 +0100

But Signed Symbian is very hard on indie developers.
We in India cannot expect to have our apps Symbian signed
as the cost is too much.
What say ,chandra_singh?
Bye.
--Mayur.

What is the future of Symbian C++ developer?

chandra singh — Thu, 09 Dec 2004 12:52:44 +0100

Hi Guys,
It looks funny what ever he said. In india good books are not available?. I totally disagree with him. In the age of internet does it matter ? I am working from last 6 months and never felt like i dont have good books, the reason what book will not give u, newlc will give u.It does not matter where u r when u are asking and what u are asking either u r novice or guru.

dont mind technology has came to go and new things has to come this is human nature to do.

What is the future of Symbian C++ developer?

dotcdotc — Mon, 06 Dec 2004 06:16:27 +0100

hi all,

I think symbian is undisputed leader in market at present with more than 50% market share followed by Microsoft (just 20%).

http://www.newlc.com/article.php3?id_article=611

So, future of Symbian Developers is better than others I guess.

regards
dotcdotc

What is the future of Symbian C++ developer?

joker_pl — Thu, 02 Dec 2004 19:00:37 +0100

Hi,
We should not talk bout Symbian C++ only.
I can say bout handheld game market. Only in 2003 game market earned 1.1 bln $. Prognosis for 2008 is 8.4 bln$. On avarge there is like 220k download per month.
Of course SmartPhone is winning with PDA nowdays. In Q2 2004 only Nokia was having like 45.4 mln devices and in Q3 51.4. Its 13.2% rise.
Symbian is a lider OS for SmartPhone. So IMHO its good to know Symbian C++.
Thats my 2 cents

What is the future of Symbian C++ developer?

MobileAnalys — Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:31:47 +0100

Hi all,

In the beginning, J2ME has pretty good vision, write once run anywhere. However, although J2Me has standards API, in the reality, almost every developers in the J2ME worlds do: write once debug anywhere. The problems in J2ME is application porting. Except you are a developer with deep pocket (can test on almost every J2me devices), the proposition of WORA is a bit flaw (How you can get the return on investment if you need to invest on lots of test devices).

Second, the market of mobile java (especially gaming) is regulated by the network operators, almost 90% of people buy their game through mobile deck. The operators only deal with very limited number of developers company. No matter, how innovative or good your java apps, if you do not have channel to network operators, you could not make money.

There is a good article at www.gamasutra.com (Soapbox: Has Mobile Game Innovation Ended Already?)
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20041116/costikyan_01.shtml

The situation will get worse for small developer with the introduction of Java Verified program. This program is the minimum requirement to apply for Java apps publication on manufacturer portal and network operator.
How can the developers justify to spend between (200 Eur - 500 Eur) to certify for this program, if the average sales on almost 80% of java apps on the market today are between 0 USD up to 25 USD (just look at the Handango portal of Java apps, you will have rough picture of the java apps sales figures).

About the future of Symbian, I do not really know. Since Symbian apps are distributed through portals. I think, there are no significant markets for Symbian apps. How many company makes really money with Symbian apps? I guess that 80% of developers/companies who sell Symbian apps do not really make money.

I think the real threat/challenging is not Microsoft. Microsoft can not enter the mobile market, because its proprietary and close technologies will not be accepted by network operators who control the gateway in this mobile industry (networks operators do not want to be commodity services, such as in the PC hardware industry, if the Microsoft enter the market).

I believe that real challenge is the network operators who act as gateway between the market/consumers and the developers. Currently, sad enough, Network companies who decide which apps are good and not the consumers. This condition will play a major role for the future of not only Symbian but also J2ME.

Back to topic

pjmlp — Tue, 23 Nov 2004 11:53:13 +0100

Hi Guys,

going back to the thread topic, I really don't know if the C++ developers have a great future in the symbian platform.

I am a very skilled C++ developer with several years of experience in many different platforms but I find more appeling to use Java(J2ME) than C++.

Why?

Because my application can target many more platforms than just Symbian.

To contradict some of the things that have been said about Java vs C++.
There are already many mobiles suporting the JSRs for Bluetooth, 3D, better sound and so on.

Of course that in most current symbian platforms. C++ has still many advantages but I wonder for how long.

And when writing code for the Symbian platform it's not even possible to write code 100% portable out of the box. Because every symbian partner
has their own version of the UI APIs and other stuff.

So what I think, is that unless you are coding some application that really takes advantage of some funcionality that only available in C++, you should use Java.

This leads to the conclusion that C++ programming in Symbian might become a rare thing in the future.

regd dev env

svlpb — Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:32:25 +0100

Hi

I feel it's better if symbian has it's own IDE to work with.

Prasad SVL

What is the future of Symbian C++ developer?

mayur24 — Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:46:33 +0100

Hey, rename this post to Frontier Vs. 'Rest of Symbian developer community'.
Anyway , I have been developing Symbian apps for some time and I think
it still requires some time to mature. I think MS is way ahead in providing
proper SDK docs. Else Symbian rules.
Bye.
--Mayur.

What is the future of Symbian C++ developer?

Bassman5 — Fri, 06 Aug 2004 20:47:29 +0200

I have to agree with Frontier, I have developed with MS tools for many years, but Symbian OS is something else.

What is the future of Symbian C++ developer?

symbiannet — Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:33:49 +0200